How to climb the invisible structure behind every DM convo that converts
The 5-rung permission ladder (and why you keep falling off at rung 3)
You’re 3 messages deep into a DM conversation with someone who downloaded your lead magnet.
The first two messages went great.
They responded. They engaged.
They even asked a follow-up question.
So you do what every coach does:
You ask if they’d be open to a quick call to discuss their situation.
Read: 4:32 PM.No response.
You refresh Instagram twice. Check if they’re active.
They are. They’re viewing stories. Liking posts… just not yours.
Confused? Let me tell ya what happened:
You asked a rung-5 question to a rung-2 person.
You climbed the permission ladder 4 rungs at once, and then fell straight off when you couldn’t find proper footing.
Today, I’m sharing the 5 simple rungs that transform your DM conversations from “why do they keep ghosting me?” into conversations that convert:
• The exact permission signals that tell you when it’s safe to climb
• Why rung 3 is where 80% of coaches catastrophically fail (and what to do instead)
• The diagnostic framework that prevents you from ever mismatching rungs again
Let’s fix your invisible ladder problem...
The 5 Rungs That Explain Every Ghost (And Every Conversion)
Most coaches focus so much on what to say in their DMs that they forget to check where the person is in their process.
Here’s the 5 rungs of permission you’re looking for in every DM conversation:
1️⃣ Rung 1: They Don’t Know You Exist (No Permission)
This is the rung of complete strangers.
They’ve never heard your name. They don’t follow you.
They have zero awareness of who you are or what you do.
Rung 1 Reality Check:
You’re scrolling through Instagram, building a list of potential prospects in your niche.
You find someone whose bio screams “ideal client.”
You send them a DM.
Reading it back, you cringe.
Instead of treating them like the stranger they are, you dove straight into expert advice:
❌ Before: “Hey! I noticed you’re a health coach struggling with client acquisition. I have a framework that’s helped coaches in your position generate 10-15 quality leads per month without paid ads. Would you be open to a quick call to discuss how this could work for you?”
✅ After: “Hey Sarah, saw your post about the challenge of standing out as a health coach. It really is such a saturated space right now. Curious… what do you think is preventing you from being more visible, aside from the abundance of other coaches in the space?”
Here’s how to earn micro-permission at Rung 1:
1️⃣ Reference Their World: Mention something specific from their content or profile 2️⃣ Show You’re a Real Human: Use natural language, not template-speak
3️⃣ Ask for Nothing: Your only goal is getting them to acknowledge you exist
Instead of treating strangers like “leads who should obviously talk to me,” you spoke to them like “people who might be interested in a conversation.”
2. Rung 2: They Know You But Haven’t Engaged (Micro-Awareness)
This is where most of your followers live.
They know your name. Maybe they liked a post once.
But they haven’t given you permission to be in their DMs with business conversations.
Rung 2 Reality Check:
It’s 11 PM and you’re reviewing your analytics.
Someone liked 3 of your posts this week.
You recognize the name… so you shoot them a DM.
You realize too late that you skipped three rungs in one message.
The DM sits unopened for two days before they politely respond:
“Thanks, not interested right now!”
❌ Before: “Hi Michelle! Noticed you’ve been engaging with my content on client retention. I work with coaches who want to increase their average client lifetime value. I’d love to learn more about your business and see if there’s a fit. Are you available for a quick call this week?”
✅ After: “Hey Michelle! See my posts of client retention this week resonated with you. Quick question, are you actively working on improving your retention right now, or is that more of a ‘someday’ project for you?”
The Rung 2 Strategy:
1️⃣ Acknowledge the Micro-Permission: Reference their engagement without being creepy
2️⃣ Ask a Situation Question: Learn where they actually are (not where you hope they are)
3️⃣ Give Them Control: Let them define the level of interest
Your goal at Rung 2 isn’t to book a call. It’s to find out if they’re willing to climb to Rung 3.
3. Rung 3: They’ve Given Micro-Permission (The Danger Zone)
This is where 80% of coaches fall off the ladder.
They’ve downloaded your lead magnet. They responded to your first DM. They asked a single question.
And you interpreted that as: “They’re ready to buy.”
Rung 3 Reality Check:
Someone downloaded your “5 Scripts to Book More Clients” lead magnet last night.
This morning, they respond to your follow-up DM with: “These are helpful, thanks!”
You’re excited. They’re engaged. So you go for it.
You send the pitch. The framework. The call invitation. Everything.
They ghost.
❌ Before: “So glad you found them helpful! I actually have a complete system that takes these scripts and turns them into a repeatable client acquisition process. It’s helped coaches go from inconsistent outreach to 3-5 booked calls per week. Would you be interested in learning how this system could work for your specific situation?”
✅ After: “Glad they helped! Which of the 5 scripts resonated most with where you’re at right now in your business?”
Why Rung 3 Is Where Everything Falls Apart:
At Rung 3, they’ve given you permission to have a conversation. That’s it.
They haven’t given you permission to:
Offer them your program
Explain your framework
Ask for a sales call
The Rung 3 Rule: Build trust, don’t pitch
1️⃣ Ask Deeper Questions: Move from situation to challenges
2️⃣ Listen More Than You Talk: Their responses tell you if you can climb
3️⃣ Provide Value Without Strings: Show expertise through helpfulness, not selling
You’re building the foundation for Rung 4. Nothing more.
If you rush this rung, you fall off the ladder and they disappear forever.
4. Rung 4: They’ve Given Macro-Permission (Clear Interest)
This is the rung where real conversations happen.
They’ve asked for help. They’ve shared specific challenges. They’ve had multiple engaged exchanges with you. They’re showing buying signals.
Rung 4 Reality Check:
You’ve been DMing back and forth for 3 days.
They’ve shared their revenue goals, their current struggles, and even mentioned they’ve worked with coaches before, but it didn’t work out.
Most coaches blow this moment by pitching too hard.
❌ Before: “Based on everything you’ve shared, I really think you’d be a great fit for my program. We have a proven system that addresses exactly what you’re dealing with. Here’s the investment breakdown and what’s included...”
✅ After: “Got it. So it sounds like the missing piece isn’t the tactics… you know WHAT to do. It’s more about having a system that keeps you consistent even when you’re busy. Does that sound right?”
The Rung 4 Approach:
1️⃣ Diagnose, Don’t Prescribe: Help them see what’s missing
2️⃣ Seed the Solution: Reference your methodology without pitching it
3️⃣ Watch for the Ask: They’ll request more information when they’re ready
At Rung 4, your job is to help them realize what they need.
When they see the gap clearly, they’ll ask how to fill it. That’s when you climb to Rung 5.
5. Rung 5: They’re Bought In (High Intent)
This is where the ladder ends and the call begins.
They’ve asked how you can help. They’ve requested details about working together.
They’ve given every signal that they’re ready for the next step.
Rung 5 Reality Check:
After a week of back-and-forth, they send:
“This all makes sense. How exactly do you help people with this?”
Finally. They asked. You didn’t have to convince them. They want to know.
Now you can make the offer without it feeling like a pitch.
❌ Before (still too early): “Great question! Let me send you a DM with all the program details, pricing tiers, and bonuses. We have three different packages depending on your needs...”
✅ After: “I’d love to walk you through it, but it really depends on your specific situation. Are you open to a quick Zoom chat this week where I can map out exactly how this would work for you specifically?
The Rung 5 Close:
1️⃣ Make It Collaborative: Position the call as mutual exploration, not a sales pitch
2️⃣ Lower the Pressure: Explicitly say there’s no commitment
3️⃣ Give Them Control: Offer specific time options
At Rung 5, the conversation has earned the call.
You’re not asking for permission anymore, you’re offering the natural next step.
That’s It.
Here’s what you learned today:
→ Your DM conversations die when you mismatch permission rungs
→ Rung 3 is where most coaches rush the pitch and lose the lead
→ Each rung requires different messaging. Match the rung or fall off the ladder
Pull up your active DMs right now.
Which rung is each person on? What message would actually match their rung?
You’re not bad at DMs… you just couldn’t see the invisible ladder.
When every conversation feels like a coin flip (will they respond or ghost?), it’s impossible to build a consistent system.
Today’s paid member mega-prompt diagnoses exactly which rung each of your leads is on and generates the perfect rung-matched message to send next.
Paid members get:
✓ The Permission Ladder Diagnostic that categorizes all your active DMs by rung
✓ Mismatch identification for your last message (did you climb too fast?)
✓ Exact next message to send that matches where they actually are
✓ The green light signals that tell you when it’s safe to climb